Post DSEI arrests

Published: September 27, 2011 17:19 by Next ?

Aslo forgot to say that Marc is Vegan and we have informed the VPSG of his arrest.

Published: September 27, 2011 17:40 by Sick of this

Fucking filth, protecting arms dealers. I'll be there and so will everyone I can get to come with me.

Published: September 27, 2011 18:29 by Manchester person, lives London

Heard from comrades arrests also in Manchester for same action. Three arrests, two houses busted.

Published: September 27, 2011 23:03 by Real Manchester person

I'm unsure as to whether this story is true for numerous reasons:

1, Why does nobody involved in StopDsei now of this action?

2,I am cureently in manchester and a member of Manchester Against Militarism, we have not heard of anybody here being arrested due to a DSEi action and manchester activist scene is pretty small.

Could the organisers of this demo maybe post some more details or get in touch with stopdsei with details.

Sorry to be suspicious but there have been a few indymedia articles to do with DSEi (including one about a fake convergence space) that have not been true and could be police or somebody trying to lure activists.

Peace. Out

Published: September 28, 2011 09:25 by Bystander

With respect to StopDSEI just because they don't know about this then that does not mean we should be suspicious, they are not the be all and end all of DSEI protest. Energies would be better spent supporting these comrades. At the demo last night there were about ten of us, it would have been nice to have seen more.

Published: September 28, 2011 10:37 by snapsnip

Any pics from last nights Demo? or a short report might be nice.

Published: September 28, 2011 10:46 by Partner of Marc

All people arrested both in London and Manchester have now been bailed and are back home. Thank you to all those who came down to Paddington Green last night, I know Marc really appreciated it.

Ian and Marc are both charged with criminal damage, obstructing the police and resisting arrest. They understand a court date is likely to be in January 2012.

Published: September 28, 2011 10:57 by Anon

You may want to contact the Green & Black Cross Legal hotline for advice: 07946 541 511

Published: September 28, 2011 12:44 by Evey

There is some doubt about the veracity of this story. The campaign groups opposing the DSEi arms fair have not heard anything about this direct action despite its alleged success. The way in which the post named the arrestees and linked them to the action while they were still in custody has also aroused some suspicion.

Enquiries are being made in the activist community, and so far, no-one seems to know the people who were allegedly arrested. Pending further information, this story and a related one have been marked as inaccurate on Indymedia UK.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/09/485243.html
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/09/485274.html

To put this in context: It is believed that someone has been posting disinformation about anti-DSEi activism. A recent story about a convergence space was discredited by activists. These stories may be part of the same disinformation.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/09/484382.html

It would be a shame if someone was posting disinformation for whatever reason, but stories about DSEi will be checked and flagged up if found to be false. Reliable sources of information include Disarm DSEi (www.dsei.org / @DisarmDsei) and the Stop The Arms Fair coalition (www.stopthearmsfair.org.uk / www.facebook.com/stopthearmsfair / @StopTheArmsFair).

Enquiries will continue, and any updates will be posted here.

Published: September 28, 2011 14:14 by Not with anyone

This story is not trusted by you which is a bit harsh considering you admit you do not know them. Please see my other comments on the complimentry thread

Published: September 28, 2011 14:49 by Luke

I'm uncomfortable with the way the arrest of these people is being presented as some sort of disinformation by certain individuals because they were not involved in the action.

Actions around DSEi were varied and I was involved in something that had nothing to do with StopDSEi and Stopthearmsfair, I doubt if they are aware of it now but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. What I did was unlikely to get me arrested but if I had of been I would have been more than a little pissed off at others slagging me off on IMC because they don't know me.

It's exactly this sort of reaction that drives new people away from the work.

Published: September 28, 2011 15:23 by Shut down the arms trade

"Actions around DSEi were varied and I was involved in something that had nothing to do with StopDSEi and Stopthearmsfair"

afaik there isn't a group called stopdsei. There is one called DisarmDSEi though.

Anyway - no-one is slagging anyone off - but as someone went to great lengths to pretend that a group called 'London Active Collective' and 'London Action Group' had a convergence centre and 50 people and were going to shut down the arms fair and it turned out to be untrue, then it cannot be surprising that this post raises concerns.

Personally I find it very strange that someone wouldn't want to post details of such a great action on Indymedia or anywhere, but would want their names published when they get arrested, and before they know what evidence the cops have.

No coverage of the action or the arrests anywhere else is quite surprising as well.

So you can thank the troll who posted the disinformation about the London Action Group/Collective for DSei posts being checked carefully and subject to doubt about their veracity.

Published: September 28, 2011 15:56 by One of Disarm DSEi

This post has raised suspicions because of the way it is written and because of the fake post about the DSEi convergence centre.

Obviously, if it is true, we offer full solidarity to those arrested, and are happy to help in anyway we can.

However, if it is true, it does seem to be very strange, and very ill advised to publish the names of the people involved and enough detail to link them to the action when people don't know what evidence, if any, the cops have. Also, not sure when the people would have had the opportunity to ask for their names published when they'd been caught by surprise from a raid.

Finally, there are questions regarding the charging information. If they had been charged then the court date would be well before January, and also were they charged with resisting arrest and obstructing police as two separate charges as this is very unusual.

It would be really good if we could confirm the veracity of the story. If it is true, please could the defendants contact one of the respected support organisations - GBC, LDMG, Fitwatch or Network for Police Monitoring - so we can clear this matter up.

No-one wants to be accusing those who might have been arrested of planting false story and it is something that has only been done after thought and discussion. However, given there are doubts, these have to be raised, and steps taken to try and resolve the issue.

Published: September 28, 2011 16:02 by Terri

It seems to me we who use Indymedia can fall into the habit of thinking that actions, events etc are always posted here when in fact there is a new generation of activists who never use it or even read it. For them Facebook is the web organising and reporting tool of choice. Perhaps this action and the report about it are somewhere else on the Web ?

Published: September 28, 2011 16:04 by Homer Simpson

"...it does seem to be very strange, and very ill advised to publish the names of the people involved and enough detail to link them to the action when people don't know what evidence, if any, the cops have"

Well as the cops nicked them for offenses relating to the action they clearly know about it and their names.

Published: September 28, 2011 16:25 by Brat Simpson

"Well as the cops nicked them for offenses relating to the action they clearly know about it and their names."

And so does google now - so its lucky they're not real people is it not?

Published: September 28, 2011 16:43 by curious cat

"so its lucky they're not real people is it not?"

Your evidence for this ?

Published: September 28, 2011 16:48 by One of Disarm DSEi

Somebody at Disarm DSEi has been contacted by a trusted individual and can verify this action and the subsequent police arrest.

Details of the action where a half scale model of a Eurofighter Typhoon was delayed on its trip from a BAE factory to DSEi are HERE.

Our apologies but in the light of the convergence centre fake post and our lack of knowledge of the action we thought we were being wound up again.

Finaly congratulations to those involved, the little victories do count.

Published: September 28, 2011 17:06 by Disarm DSEi

Given Disarm DSEi people have been emailing each other on and off all day this post seems highly unlikely to have come from any of us as haven't heard any confirmation.

Also, if there is a link please can it be posted properly.

Published: September 28, 2011 18:32 by DisarmDSEi

No email about this has yet been received to the list. It seems unlikely that the post came from anyone in Disarm.

In the meantime if you have a link which reports the action please post it.

Thanks

Published: September 29, 2011 10:43 by Brat Simpson

Your evidence for this?

Purely circumstantial but stronger than the case for them being real and getting stronger by the hour.

That someone would pretend to be 'one of Disarm DSEi' and then provide a 'link' to the action which doesn't work suggests trolling.

Also the troll posting as 'One of Disarm DSEi' claimed this:
"Details of the action where a half scale model of a Eurofighter Typhoon was delayed on its trip from a BAE factory to DSEi are HERE." while the original post on Northern said this: "These arrests were linked to the action at BAE SYSTEMS in Warton which prevented a model of the Eurofighter being transported in time for DSEI"

Consistent with a troll who forgets the exact details of their troll - in the case of the convergence centre troll - the 'London Action Collective' became the 'London Action Group'. You'd remember if you were a real member of a real Group or Collective - and you'd remember if the model got to DSEi or didn't if it was a real action.

Just as in the last post about the convergence centre where 'Laura' claimed that 'she' had a screenshot that proved that London IMC altered the address on the post, changed the email and removed the telephone number. (so why not just hide it if they were so inclined to behave like that?)
Unsurprisingly no such screenshot ever appeared.

Also the similar timings on comments on both the London and Northern threads - within minutes of each other by 'different people' - on low traffic sites.

And the screw up over charges and court dates:
"Ian and Marc are both charged with criminal damage, obstructing the police and resisting arrest. They understand a court date is likely to be in January 2012."

As pointed out above court would be earlier and it would be either resisting arrest or obstructing police, not both. Also if this was a concerted police action - 5 arrests in 2 cities then I have real doubts about the resisting arrest as the cops would have definitely arrived mob handed.

And Paddington Green Police Station for an action which is supposed to have happened in Lancaster does not ring true either.

Nor does 10 people turning up after this call-out which also appears nowhere else. Unlikely to have happened which is why we will not get to see photos ever.

And years of watching trolls operate on Indymedia sites.

I have googled extensively for evidence of this action and there is none. On the other hand there is plenty for the action by kayaks that delayed the warships.

Perhaps you can find the proof it happened. Until then we must allow for the fact that this is someone with a problem or agenda and way too much time on their hands.

Also - why was the author of the article called Next?

Was the real purpose of the post to suggest that if you take action you will be hunted down?

I'll suggest it was though I have no evidence to back it up.

Published: September 29, 2011 14:20 by Falkins Ghost

So just to be sure I understand this you are suggesting the police trolled Indymedia suggesting an action against DSEi was succesful and the police ended up the losers ?

Really ?

I am surprised that some people are still having trouble coming to terms with the idea that anaction against DSEi happended and they didn't know about it - get over yourselves.

These people deserve our congratulations and support as at least one member of Disarm DSEi has had the magnaminity to do here.

Published: September 29, 2011 14:54 by Roy Bard's left bollock

Roy,

As you are a moderator over on Indymedia UK wouldn't your time be better spent over there making sure all those posts about Jews running the world are given full prominence ?

Published: September 29, 2011 14:55 by Disarm DSEi

Firstly, if this action and arrests had happened, and we'd been given any proof of them, we would give full unconditional solidarity and support. I think all of us would love the idea there are anti-militarists around taking radical action we know nothing about.

However, nothing has been provided. Instead there was a fake post from Disarm, claiming the action had been proved, with a link that didn't exist.

Why would they do this? Why would they post a fake convergence centre post? These posts cause disruption and take up time for those of us who feel they need correcting.

This also does not show a victory for the police - if it were true the activists were caught and face potential serious charges. If anything, it is designed to put people off covert actions because of the perceived threat of getting away (which most people do when correct security measures are taken).

Published: September 29, 2011 15:07 by Brat Simpson

"So just to be sure I understand this you are suggesting the police trolled Indymedia suggesting an action against DSEi was succesful and the police ended up the losers ?"

No.

Really ?

Its your strawman, not mine.

"These people deserve our congratulations and support as at least one member of Disarm DSEi has had the magnaminity to do here."

The person who claimed to have proof of the article isn't from Disarm DSEi and didn't actually provide any proof the action happened. No-one has. So by far the majority of people will conclude that this whole thread has been a waste of everyone's time.

London Indymedia hasn't helped by paradoxically promoting fiction and then adding a warning to say it seems to be fiction.

Cue much more trolling of this site in the future.

Published: September 29, 2011 16:14 by Not wanted here

Roy,

Why don't you sod off back to Indymedia UK where your brand of "we know best, do as we say" is one of the reasons you had to get Chris to steal the URL from the rest of the collective to maintain your power over the site